Schneier on Security

Clive Robinson • November 8, 2023 10:10 AM

@ Bruce,

I hate to say it but changing what we call things, rather than learning why we need to change the way things actually work, is a game of rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Saying,

1, “Data at rest” for “data storage”
2, “Data in motion” for “Data communication”
3, “Data in use” for “Data processing”

Is a case of the former, not the latter and is not resolving any issues, in fact it’s actually making things needlessly more complicated and as a consequence actually hiding things that should be in clearer sight… So even if lessons are learned, they are harder to implement and subject to “lost in translation” issues.

Whilst I’ve never been a fan of AuthZ and AuthN they had become a form of standard for the past four decades or so. And had been augmented when people started to realise that both people and jobs had roles attached to them and roles needed to be looked at within the function of the organisation and importantly be dynamic rather than sufficiently static and encomberson so as to be like fouling on the bottom of a boat (just “grows unaccountably”, “slows progress”, whilst “decreasing efficiency” and “decreasing security”).

Decoupling is a new term that trys to encompass other terms such as segregation, issolation, and, encapsulation to name just three.

Hence,

“In the last few years, a slew of ideas old and new have converged to reveal a path out of this morass, but they haven’t been widely recognized, combined, or used. These ideas, which we’ll refer to in the aggregate as “decoupling,” allow us to rethink both security and privacy.”

I realy don’t think it will “allow us to rethink both security and privacy”, just make for more nearly irrelevant questions in certification exams, and needless re-writes of books.

As was once said,

“There’s a reason you don’t chuck all the crabs in one bucket, or put all the snakes in one bag.”

Or other similar points involving cats, ferrets, and similar creatures that “need space” or “segregation” and seperate “encapsulation”. Otherwise you get a mess that nobody wants to go near let alone sort out.

“The less someone knows, the less they can put you and your data at risk.”

Actually whilst that’s sort of true for “disinterested outsiders”, it’s not true of “interested outsiders” and many “involved insiders”. Because of the old “information loves to be free” observation from decades ago and the likes of side channels and inappropriate actions.

And why I’ve consistantly warned that Cloud and most “XaaS” systems are a very very bad idea.

Whilst we can sort of encapsulate data at rest and in motion, when it’s not sufficiently or fully segregated it leaks,

1, information
2, meta-information
3, meta-meta-information

As a matter of function (storage, communications). But when it comes to “data in use” currently there is neither encapsulation nor effective segregation, and as has been demostrated even with “Security Enclaves” there is sufficient information leaking,

“That like a loose thread on a jumper, it can be pulled and unravel more and more”. Thus “Decoupling” becomes a moot point encapsulation fails as segregation is insufficient.

As for,

“To verify that decoupling has been done right, we can learn from how we think about encryption: you’ve encrypted properly if you’re comfortable sending your message with your adversary’s communications system.”

The use of “if you’re comfortable” is not an idea that should be used in safety or security.

Some may remember all those holiday makers “who were comfortable” on the beach having their Xmas holiday, when the sea went out… Because they did not have the “knowledge” to know what it ment, many did not respond in time so disapeared, died, or were injured when it came back as a Tsunami and swept them helplessly to their fate.

If people actually understood the difference between segregation and encapsulation and side channel leakage of information, meta-information and meta-meta-information they would never ever be “comfortable” with “cloud services”.

Oh and for those covered by the SEC and “insider trading regulation” the attacks on CISO’s that have just been started are something you should realise are the first step of a potentially protracted grab on profits and fines. With the next step being via the regulation for insider trading prevention. Because no cloud service in active use can comply with insider trading prevention regulation…

Clive Robinson • November 9, 2023 6:59 PM

@ ResearcherZero, ALL,

Re : Cost of design and manufacture swells to meet Government budgets.

“We can’t all have conversations in an electromagnetically shielded skiff, and it is often pretty impractical (they don’t fit in the boot of your car).”

They can be designed to fit in a couple of back packs, I know, I’ve done so as far as “electromagnetics only” are concerned [1].

But to meet several requirments SCIF’s have to be more than just electromagnetically shielded, they have to stop other kinds of energy escape. And that’s where not just the bulk, but other issues arise, that also in turn create others…

As a very rough idea if you follow the requirments to reduce materials costs you end up with a box room in the center surounded by a wrap around corridor with two or more right angle corners excluding the outer and inner door vestibules, so radiant energy hits anachoic / absorbant walls several times. The other walls of the box have various “filter and conditioning” systems around them, some with quite leary UPS systems.

Whilst electromagnetic anachoic and shielding materials can be quite low weight, sufficient “sound proofing” is “an entirely different kettle of fish”. It also effectively stops ventilation by natural means, so you would fairly quickly suffocate unless air is mechanically pushed in and foul extracted (some are actually run at raised preasure using air flow control techniques similar to Class 3 Biosafety Level labs with self closing doors at the vestibules)…

The average adult male resting breaths at around 12-20 breaths a minute depending on how fat and unfit they are. Each breath requires a tidal volume of about 0.5litres, so 10litres/person/minute is the minimum baseline (~1/5th or 20% of that is the required oxygen which decreases quickly with altitude). However even very small amounts of activity rapidly raises this need and 40-60 liters per person per minute is kind of the range you have to design for.

And remember SCIF’s are seen like lifts… In that the plate on the wall says “10 Persons Maximum” but “we all know that realy means 15 people” because girls are small etc etc etc… So you might as well go for 1 cubic meter per min and have done with it… But you can’t because for other reasons it needs to be both temprature and humidity controled. To stop pathogens like “black spot mould” and the like killing people.

Then there is power for lights and equipment requiring special power filtering and heat removal.

Then there is aditional NBC requirments after all if you are going to the expense, of the SCIF you might as well add some more, as you multiple “dual use it”…

And so it goes on… A little box with a table and a few chairs becomes as if by magic an NBC rated cell / CryptoCell / SCIF / CommCen something quite large and very costly (but if you get the contract very profitable).

I’ve seen designs that basically start off with what looks like a lorry container as the room box and then other cut up containers are full seam welded around it… Then anachoic materials covered by flooring walls and ceilings with metal conduits for cables etc.

You kind of need a special lorry to transport them, which is also fun because quite often the requirments include having a 2meter gap all around… So you need an aircraft hanger or warehouse sized building just to put them in.

[1] The thing about conductive cloth and metal thread is these days three layers seperated by two layers of loose weave seperator is not much thicker that cloth used for quilted coats. And like the quilt of a sleeping bag it compresses down almost as much. So designing an inner and outer “tent system” whilst not trivial ends up looking like one of those cubic “hot tents”. Provided only battery powered equipment is used inside and you don’t intend to stay in there for very long then you can do it but at ~50lb in each backpack –one for tent and inner, the other for poles and flooring– it’s not something you are going to want to lug for more than a mile or so especially if you have to also carry your own “personal” kit and supplies.